Author Topic: The Elgins (Read 469 times)

Silly Wasnt I · « **on:** January 27, 2020, 06:10:44 am »

Was very surprised to learn that both Darling Baby and Put Yourself In My Place by the Elgins are over-dubs on Supremes recordings. Darling Baby by the Elgins was completed on 26th October 1965, so an unreleased Supremes version pre-dates that. According to DFTMC Put Yourself In My Place was completed on 28th September 1965 - on version 1 of a DRATS version. The released Supremes version (version 3) was completed on 12th July 1966.

Stay In My Lonely Arms is, of course, a cover of the Four Tops original. Both Heaven Must Have Sent You and I Understand My Man seem to have been original Elgins recordings.

I recall HDH commenting that Four Tops rejects went to the Isley Brothers and that DRATS rejects went to the Elgins. It seems to be true!

SWI

humboldt · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2020, 07:52:02 pm »

I'm now totally confused. It seems that the Elgins & Isley's both odb on Supremes v1!

Put Yourself In My Place (Brian Holland-Lamont Dozier-Edward Holland Jr-John Thornton) published Jobete 01-Nov-65

alt title: My Darling It's You

Chris Clark; recorded Hitsville, completed 27-Jun-66 ; produced by Brian Holland, Lamont Dozier ; [odb on Supremes v2]

14-Jul-66; 45 (M): V.I.P. 25038 B
Aug-67; LP (S): Motown S664 Soul Sounds
Aug-67; LP (M): Motown M664 Soul Sounds
07-Mar-05; CD (S): Motown 981 9564 The Motown Collection [UK]
24-Nov-06; CD (M): Hip-O Select B0007872-02 The Complete Motown Singles Vol. 6 1966
09-Apr-08; CD (S): Reel Music B0012412-02 Soul Sounds

The Elgins; recorded Hitsville, completed 28-Sep-65 ; produced by Brian Holland, Lamont Dozier ; [lead Saundra Mallet, odb on the Supremes v1]

31-Dec-65; 45 (M): V.I.P. 25029 A [some copies show artist as The Downbeats]
Oct-66; LP (M): V.I.P. 400 Darling Baby
Oct-66; LP (S): V.I.P. 400 Darling Baby
Jan-68; LP (M): Tamla Motown TML11064 Motown Memories [UK]
1997; CD (S): Britannia 530 706/7/8 Motown: The History: The Love Songs [UK]
17-Jul-00; CD (S): Spectrum 544 280 2 Tamla Motown Big Hits And Hard To Find Classics Volume 3 [UK]
03-Aug-05; CD (S): Shout B0004999-02 The Motown Box
04-Aug-06; CD (M): Hip-O Select B0006775-02 The Complete Motown Singles Vol. 5 1965
07-May-07; CD (M): Motown 980 0892 The Motown Anthology [UK]
07-May-07; CD (S): Motown 980 0892 The Motown Anthology [UK]

The Isley Brothers; recorded Hitsville, completed 17-Mar-66 ; produced by Brian Holland, Lamont Dozier ; [odb on the Supremes v1]

May-66; LP (M): Tamla T269 This Old Heart Of Mine
May-66; LP (S): Tamla S269 This Old Heart Of Mine
Oct-70; LP (E): Starline SRS5043 Isley Brothers Greatest Hits
26-Feb-91; CD (M): Motown MOTD 5483 Greatest Hits And Rare Classics
26-Mar-01; CD (S): Spectrum 544 516 2 The Essential Collection [UK]
11-Nov-02; CD (S): Motown 017 190 2 This Old Heart Of Mine / Soul On The Rocks [UK]
2004; CD (S): Reader's Digest RDCD 4581-3 The Ultimate Motown Collection - Love Songs
21-Sep-09; CD (M): Motown 532 1498 The Motown Anthology [UK]

The Supremes; recorded Hitsville, completed 12-Jul-66 ; produced by Brian Holland, Lamont Dozier ; [v3]

25-Jul-66; 45 (M): Motown M 1097 B
Aug-66; LP (S): Motown S649 A' Go-Go
Aug-66; LP (M): Motown M649 A' Go-Go
23-Oct-00; CD (S): Motown 159 508 2 Love Child / Supremes A Go-Go [UK]
24-Nov-06; CD (M): Hip-O Select B0007872-02 The Complete Motown Singles Vol. 6 1966
07-Oct-11; CD (M): Hip-O Select B0154943-02 50th Anniversary | The Singles Collection 1961-1969
The Supremes; recorded Hitsville, completed 12-Jul-66 ; produced by Brian Holland, Lamont Dozier ; [v3 alt vocal]
28-Apr-17; CD (S): Motown 602557 486704 A' Go-Go (Expanded Edition) [2017 mix]
The Supremes; recorded Hitsville, completed 12-Jul-66 ; produced by Brian Holland, Lamont Dozier ; [v3]
28-Apr-17; CD (M): Motown 602557 486704 A' Go-Go (Expanded Edition)
28-Apr-17; CD (S): Motown 602557 486704 A' Go-Go (Expanded Edition)

Silly Wasnt I · « **Reply #2 on:** February 06, 2020, 02:17:16 am »

I'd always believed that Marvin's You've Been A Long Time Coming must have been an Elgins track with his vocal dubbed over Saundra's.

I see on DFTMC that Marvin's is shown as an overdub on a Supremes recording. As the Elgins had the fortune of doing the same thing, I'm still wondering if they had first crack at it before it was passed on to Marvin. Those background vocals certainly sound like the Elgins to me.....

Can anyone else hear it?

SWI

humboldt · « **Reply #3 on:** February 06, 2020, 06:14:21 am »

Eric you could well be right but my hearing, along with the rest of my facilities, is not at its best!

Paul Nixon · « **Reply #4 on:** February 14, 2020, 05:05:18 am »

There seems to be a lot of confusion about over dubbing or dubbing You've Been A Long Time Coming was initially according to paperwork assigned to the Supremes but there are no vocals and was quickly re-assigned to Marvin Gaye. Paperwork shows MG did not overdub he dubbed in and recorded two leads - there is no mention of the Elgins or Downbeats anywhere. Darling Baby is exaclty the same it was written with the Supremes in mind and assigned to the but was only ever cut by the Elgins/Dowbeats so there is no unreleased version waiting in the wings - I wish there were I would have pushed for it's release a long while ago if not beaten (and I surely would have been) by Mr Skurow. You can actually almost safely say the Supremes are done apart from alt mixes - some lives and the odd alt take but hey never say never there are more clever people than me searching.

Silly Wasnt I · « **Reply #5 on:** February 14, 2020, 11:58:20 pm »

Thanks for that explanation, Paul.

It does get confusing. I understand assigned to - followed by re-assigned to - to mean the first artist did not record a song written for them. If I understand correctly, when the notations say "overdub" - that means the same thing?

It's a minefield of terminology.

SWI

Mikep5 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 16, 2020, 03:54:59 pm »

I think you've been a long time coming is Taylor made for the Elgins.It would've fit perfectly on the Darling Baby lp. I can imagine the Supremes singing Darlin Baby but If it is there, I doubt that it comes anywhere close to the great version by the Elgins. I do like Rose Bank's cover of the song. One of my favorite cuts on the Darling Baby lp is Stay in my lonely arms. I prefure it to The Four Tops original track. If memory serves me right, levi was not on lead, one of the other tops was, though can't recall his name right now.

Silly Wasnt I · « **Reply #7 on:** May 10, 2020, 12:05:53 am »

I was really surprised to learn that the Elgins covered this old doo-wop track:-

Oddly, this sounds even older than the Five Quails version on some Harvey Records boot-leg compilation - or, at least, that's my memory of it. Can anyone confirm or deny?

The Elgins' cover is superb. I recall this being played on the radio a lot in the Sixties - what was that programme for armed forces personnel based around the world?

SWI

humboldt · « **Reply #8 on:** May 10, 2020, 07:02:43 am »

I love this one too Eric. Saundra had an amazing and very underrated voice.

Roger · « **Reply #9 on:** May 10, 2020, 08:23:56 am »

Presumably you are thinking about AFN (The American Forces Network) SWI, rather than The BBC's Sunday Lunchtime "Two Way Family Favourites" …

I only really discovered AFN around 1970, I knew the station was there but reception was a bit iffy where I lived. When I found out that Willie Mitchell had a Soul show on there I made a point of listening and for the next 4 years I was quite a regular listener as, once it got dark, it proved to be a good alternative to Radio Luxembourg. It all went pear-shaped when European Airwave Frequencies were re-jigged around 1974/5 and AFN's signal became unlistenable.

Roger

Paul Nixon · « **Reply #10 on:** May 11, 2020, 05:01:55 am »

You know for years I've searched for a supposed copy of (We've Got) Honey Love by the Elgins and everyone I know who has had access to the vaults has turned up zilch - it looks to me that if a vocal was done then it was wiped in favour of another BUT somebody (not on this board it has to be said) swore blind they had a boot copy of it and would send it - that never materialised and I have long since forgotten who it was although I am sure it was from across the pond. I wonder if they were mixing it up with the (then) unreleased lead by Sandra Tilley on the Velvelettes.

Silly Wasnt I · « **Reply #11 on:** May 11, 2020, 07:56:45 am »

That's probably correct, Paul.

Way back, when cassettes were circulating on the Northern Soul scene of hideously sped-up tracks from the vault, the track details were often misleading. For instance, Sugar's Never Been As Sweet As You by the Elgins turned out to be the Marvelettes track.

Slowing these tracks down (which is what we did in my pal's recording studio in order to add material to those old CDRs) often made it clear who the artists really were.

I never could understand the point of "covering up" which was so prevalent on the NS scene in those days...

SWI

Snakepit · « **Reply #12 on:** May 12, 2020, 03:41:59 am »

I don't think these were "cover ups" in the normal sense of the meaning.
I just think they were a genuine guess at the artists.

humboldt · « **Reply #13 on:** May 12, 2020, 06:51:03 am »

Larry, I'm sure that I read somewhere that DJ's vied with each other for the latest bootlegs so sped them up for two reasons. To mask who the artist really was so a rival could not copy it and to avoid being busted for copy-write. Of course I could have dreamt this!

Snakepit · « **Reply #14 on:** May 12, 2020, 07:41:16 am »

I recall visiting a market stall by chance, after several years 'off the scene'. The stall holder , a big NS name ( DJ, TV documentarys etc) was selling tapes of unissued Motown.
I was amazed to hear these recordings....as I say, I was out ot touch, but these tracks were big on the scene.
I listened to the tapes and had to compare the artists given . Many were incorrect. I informed the DJ of the errors, but some tracks were not always easy to identify.
But it amused me that the DJ..didn't know the artists. And he would be relatively clued up.....many on the scene would be clueless.

Motown Treasures

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Author Topic: The Elgins (Read 469 times)

Silly Wasnt I

The Elgins

humboldt

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Silly Wasnt I

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humboldt

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Paul Nixon

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Silly Wasnt I

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Mikep5

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Silly Wasnt I

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humboldt

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Roger

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Paul Nixon

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Silly Wasnt I

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Snakepit

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humboldt

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Snakepit

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